He called home every night. Six weeks away shearing alpacas up north, good money coming in, and a phone call home at the end of each day. The calls were short. He was not really asking anything. He counted them as effort, and that is exactly what made them dangerous — the thing he thought was proof he was present was the thing hiding the fact that he wasn’t.
Marty Hofmann is an entrepreneur and real estate investor, host of the Kill Complacency podcast, father of six, married to Ginger for nearly twenty-four years. When he got home from that trip, she said: let’s go for a walk. On the walk she told him she was done.
“I was potentially going to lose my wife over something I thought was okay.”
His word for this is drift, and his definition is the sharpest thing in the conversation: default results in forgotten time. It is not laziness, and he argues it gets more dangerous the higher you climb, because at the top it is disguised as reward. Watches, art, holidays. All of it looks like winning.
Fixing it cost him real money. He gave up the northern shearing run, around 120 thousand dollars in three months, and set a rule that he would never be more than 300 miles from home. The reasoning came from an exercise he now gives everyone: write your own obituary first, then work backwards. Does it say Marty Hofmann, the alpaca shearer, or Marty Hofmann, married fifty years to Ginger?
For anyone measuring their effort at home in money sent rather than attention paid.
👇 Connect with Marty Hofmann LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/martyhofmann
Explore more: Website https://www.nickjonsson.com
Episode Transcript
Nick Jonsson: Welcome back to another episode of Limitless. Today we have Marty Hofmann with us. He's an entrepreneur, real estate investor, podcast host, speaker, and the author of Kill Complacency: Stop Drifting and Start Living the Life God Designed for You. Wow, that sounds really exciting, Marty. We have something to deliver here today. How are you doing?
Marty Hofmann: I'm excited to be here. I'm excited to share your message of Limitless and help your audience realise their full potential.
Nick Jonsson: That sounds really great, and I'm excited to dig into the work you're doing. When I researched you online, I saw some fantastic numbers: a lot of big portfolios, a 13 million portfolio and so on. Maybe you can start there. Tell us what it is you're working with.
Marty Hofmann: Real estate is where I started, mostly because I felt like I'd been an entrepreneur my whole life. I've had jobs, but I've always loved my freedom. The entrepreneur life is up and down, so you're not always the Elon Musk of the world, but I've always embraced that. I got into real estate because I could leverage the bank's money and the tenant's money to essentially pay off massive amounts of debt, try to get ahead in life, and create the opportunity to impact others through that.
That was where I got on the board, and when I did, I realised that if Marty Hofmann can do this, then anybody can do this. We started the Kill Complacency podcast because we realised that complacency is the enemy of our full potential. We have to kill it, and it's not a one-and-done. It's all the time. That's the short and sweet version of how we got to where we are today, but it started with real estate.
Nick Jonsson: All right, Marty. How do you define complacency?
Marty Hofmann: Complacency is the drift. We define drift as default results in forgotten time. When we begin to drift, whether we're the highest person on the totem pole or the lowest, it limits our potential and limits who we can be. It's not necessarily laziness, but it is not living up to our full potential.
Nick Jonsson: Yeah, go on.
Marty Hofmann: I was going to say, you see this at all levels. The guy just starting out can get analysis paralysis and not move to the next level because he's scared and he's drifting. But you also see it with executives, with people high up, with entrepreneurs. They get to a certain level, and then they start buying watches and art and vacations. Instead of leaning into their God-given abilities and talents, they plateau, and they cease to contribute to the world. So you see this at all levels. It just looks different.
Nick Jonsson: So if I'm hearing you right, Marty, what we're saying is that we get excited, we're building something for ourselves, we start to accumulate some wealth, and once we hit that, many of us plateau and then make excuses. Is that basically, in a nutshell, what I'm hearing from you?
Marty Hofmann: I think we have that potential. The enemy of limitless is comfort. That's what keeps us from living that limitless life: we get comfortable. Whether you're the guy who's comfortable working 38 hours a week and getting by pay cheque to pay cheque, or you're the guy who's high up and happy with his, I don't know, million-dollar CEO salary and not willing to continue to build, we all have this comfort that we gravitate to, and it keeps us limited, for lack of a better word.
Nick Jonsson: And isn't that a dangerous place to be these days? With so much innovation so fast, AI disrupting everything, before you know it you might find yourself outside of the workplace. What do you think, Marty?
Marty Hofmann: I agree. I have a lot of friends who have been in IT for 20 years and are losing their jobs. And for me, Nick, I think: you guys are in IT, you should have seen all this coming. You could have been on the bandwagon 10 years ago, or five years ago. But instead they're mad at AI and they've lost their jobs, and they're not willing to go out there and learn and grow and do what they did 20 years ago. If I had been their employer, I maybe would have let them go as well.
Nick Jonsson: And Marty, is there a reason you're driving this conversation? What's the inner motivation? Looking back at your life, has there been a time when you were drifting yourself?
Marty Hofmann: All the time. It's a constant battle. I don't have my phone in here, but if I did, I would show you my case. It says "Kill Complacency." The phone especially is an easy example of something that pulls at our attention and keeps us from doing the things that can make a big difference in the world. It keeps us living a limited life.
I struggle with it all the time. I could talk about my marriage: my wife coming to me and saying, "I'm out." She said that because I thought providing was the same as presence, and it isn't. We worked it out. We had some hard conversations and made some changes, and lived a more intentional life. We started going on date nights and reading books together, all the things. But it was a drift on my part, believing I was taking care of her by giving her money and not presence.
I could talk about business, too. I could talk about missing opportunities with my kids. It's a real struggle. But I do know, Nick, that the difference between a life of regret and a life well lived is the intentionality it takes every day to get up and do the things that I know are going to make me proud of that life.
Nick Jonsson: I want to go a little deeper there, on how many times, as men, we position ourselves as the provider. I know that's perhaps gradually changing, but there are still many who find themselves there. Many of my coaching clients are working so hard, and if a relationship has been there, say we've been married 20 years, it's easy to start taking that partner for granted. The moment we do that, the partner fades away, and maybe they start having an affair, and before we know it we find ourselves seeing a couples therapist because we're heading for divorce. What should we do instead? What would be the proactive approach, Marty, so we don't end up there?
Marty Hofmann: Something I talk a lot about, and I'm sure you do too, is reverse engineering our life. Maybe sit down and write your obituary. What do you want it to say about you? Do you want it to say you were married once, or six times? If you want it to say once, with however many grandkids you invested in, and that you ran Ironmans, whatever it is, you just reverse engineer that.
If you want that strong marriage, then especially as entrepreneurs and executives, we know what it takes to build a business, and we often reverse engineer that plan on a yearly or quarterly basis. So why not do that in our marriages? Why not go on that annual retreat and read that book together? For me, I take Monday night. We do date night on Monday because there's no competition on Monday. We tried doing it later in the week, but often it got pushed away. Monday night is date night for us, and it's pretty non-negotiable. We do that because we want that strong marriage, we want to date, and we want to know each other well.
Nick Jonsson: Kudos to you, Marty, for doing that. In the work I do, that's normally something that has drifted away. They used to do that as a couple when they first met. We wouldn't have reached the level of getting married if we hadn't put in any effort. But once we have that ring on the finger and we sign the papers, the date night starts to fade away, doesn't it?
Marty Hofmann: It's sad, Nick, because oftentimes one spouse says, "Let's go dancing," and the other one says no. Then they get divorced, and guess what? They both go out and go dancing, because they're pursuing somebody else. So they knew all along; they just needed to do the thing.
That's what we advocate: reverse engineer your life and do the thing. Do the activity that is going to give you that legacy, to live the limitless life that you want.
Nick Jonsson: Thank you for sharing that. I believe we as men, especially, need to be a little more vulnerable and daring to talk in safe spaces and work on our romance, so that it doesn't have to go that far. I also did some research, Marty, and I love your seven F's framework: faith, family, fitness, finance, friends, future self and fun. Can you talk to us about how you came up with that and how it can help someone?
Marty Hofmann: I came up with that because I've seen so many people nail it on, say, the finance part, or fitness. You've done Ironman, right? I'm curious, Nick, how many hours are you training at your peak for an Ironman?
Nick Jonsson: At my peak I would train around 25 hours per week.
Marty Hofmann: Twenty-five. So I've seen guys who know how to get really fit and know how to build their finances, but they neglect their fun, or their friends, or their family. That framework was something I came up with for myself, to have more balance and to be able to hit all the points I want to have as a legacy. I set goals around those things, annual goals and quarterly goals, and then we try to create habits and systems to hit them, like date night being Monday night. We do those things so that I'm not just wealthy and fit but without a family. That's what the framework is all about.
And I'll tell you, to be vulnerable here, my hardest one is having fun. I feel like you've got to earn it. I struggle with that one, and it's probably the best chapter in the book, because I struggle with it so much. It's so convicting for me.
Nick Jonsson: And I believe you're not alone, Marty. Executives, and we're talking to executives and entrepreneurs here, put their heart and soul into the business. So much focus goes there that you have little energy left. When I'm working with my clients, they're not planning ahead for the fun. It's sort of a leftover: if I happen to have some time left over, if I happen to have some energy, let's have some fun. Guess what? If you're working 68 hours a week, it's never going to happen, is it?
Marty Hofmann: You have to schedule it. I have to schedule it. I've got to put those fun events on the calendar. A lot of the time, fun for me is time with family, so even if it's a quick weekend getaway to a lake, just put it on there. I'm telling you, this is easier said than done. It is so hard to take that break and have fun. But we are better human beings when we do, and we can serve the world better. We can serve our people better. So as hard as it is for me to do, I know it makes me a better person. That's why we need to do it.
Nick Jonsson: And when it comes to discipline around work, how do you discipline yourself, and what would you recommend people do? To do the work, but also, when they work, actually work, and then discipline themselves to switch off as well. Sometimes people spend 12 hours at work but three of them scrolling social media, and so they fall short everywhere because they're not present anywhere.
Marty Hofmann: Something else we talk a lot about, and I think you do as well, is taking stock. I saw that on your web page. We have to take stock, and that's the first thing we've got to do. Say, "You know what, I'm spending three hours every day on social media. What could I be doing differently?" It starts with being honest with ourselves and labelling it.
Then it's about putting systems in place. For me, I have an app called Opal. You can set work hours where social media is shut off. I can still get into those things, but I have to set a time limit. I'm not necessarily endorsing it, and I'm sure there are lots of apps like it, but that's something I've done so that I'm limited on that distraction and can live out that full life.
Another recommendation I would have is to set a timer. You've got a work project to do: set a 20-minute timer, and don't do anything but that for 20 or 30 minutes. When the timer goes off, then you can get distracted.
Nick Jonsson: Because the work will never finish anyway, will it, Marty?
Marty Hofmann: No, never.
Nick Jonsson: But I also know that many people use work as an excuse, or to protect themselves from not facing the truth at home. Perhaps it's easier to work 10 to 12 hours, even if we're not really working, just spending the time away, rather than coming home to have the difficult conversation with our spouse and face the challenges the kids are going through. So people might just use work as an excuse. Do you believe that's happening as well?
Marty Hofmann: I think for sure work can be a threat to oneness in our marriage and in our family. And you labelled that well: we use it to hide, we use it to escape, we use it to get our validation. Maybe our spouse isn't giving us that validation at home, so we're getting it from our co-workers, or from the people we're coaching. So, 100%.
But again, I think if you reverse engineer your life and say, "I want to be known as XYZ," then guess what, Nick? You need to have that hard conversation, and you need to tell your spouse, "Listen, I didn't want to come home tonight, because I get way more validation somewhere else." Whatever that conversation needs to be, we need to have it. Again, we need to take stock, and maybe ask for help in that as well.
Nick Jonsson: If someone is listening and agrees with what we're saying, but finds it really hard to take that first step and have those difficult conversations, because people might be avoiding them, what recommendations would you have for them?
Marty Hofmann: I would say, go for a walk. If we're specifically talking about avoiding a spouse and working more, just ask your spouse, "Hey, could we go for a walk?" Because a walk is non-threatening. It's shoulder to shoulder. Maybe you just go for a walk and it's in silence, but you'd be surprised that you can connect even in that, and it can grow.
There's the Japanese word, kaizen, I think, and it's the smallest step you can take. So that's what I would say: just go for a walk. And then tomorrow night, maybe go for a walk and say something. But at some point, and you and I know this from our training, hard is what has to happen for us to have that limitless life. If we're going to live up to our full potential, then at some point we're going to have to have that hard conversation, or we're going to get divorced and avoid it again the next time. At some point you're going to learn, so just do the hard. Have that hard conversation and improve things.
Nick Jonsson: I think we're fully aligned here, Marty. My favourite saying this year, and I've said it many times, I picked it up from someone else, is that an easy life is hard and a hard life is easy. Is that what we're talking about here?
Marty Hofmann: Yes. We think it's easy to stay at work. It's easy to just put in the time, even though it doesn't matter. The boss has said you've got to work 40 or 50 hours a week, but we're putting in 70 or 80. That's easy for us. But we need to have the hard conversation, because then, specifically in this context, you can have such a better marriage and a better family life, because you did something hard.
Nick Jonsson: I like how you said that, go for a walk, because then we don't have to have that direct eye contact, we're moving the body, and it's easier to have the conversation. I also recommend to my coaching clients that if they're going to have a difficult conversation they're anxious about, they set the scene. Don't just come home and throw it over someone. Make them ready. We wouldn't do that in a business situation, right? We reach out beforehand, set the scene, and ask, "Do you have time this Saturday afternoon? Can we go for a walk? There's something important I need to talk about, like the new car we're thinking about buying." Give something away. At least give the person a chance to prepare themselves as well, and then both of you come in ready for the conversation. That's something I share, Marty. What do you think about that?
Marty Hofmann: I agree. Give them a heads-up, because then maybe they can be thinking about it. I couldn't agree more. Nobody wants to get hit with it straight on.
Nick Jonsson: Absolutely. And you have a big family now, Marty?
Marty Hofmann: Yes, I have six kids.
Nick Jonsson: Wow. And you have time to run a podcast and do all the other projects. How do you manage to show up for yourself and take care of all these people in your life?
Marty Hofmann: I feel like I don't do a good enough job. I go to bed late and I get up early. But we schedule it. We put it on the calendar, and those are the big rocks.
My wife and I, at the end of every year, get together and set goals for the year, but we also have our calendar out and we put big events on it. For us, family night is Friday night, and I fight for that, especially as my kids get older. That's how we do it: we fight for the big rocks, the things that are important. As you said earlier, work will always be there. As much as we want to create systems to have less work, especially as an entrepreneur, I'm always going to be creating more chaos for myself and doing more.
Nick Jonsson: Then let's talk a little about Ginger as well. When I read up on you, it sounds like Ginger is the one holding everything together when you're away. Can you share a little there?
Marty Hofmann: Ginger and I have been married, it'll be 24 years in August, and she's actually gone right now. She's in Tennessee at a conference, and it's a disruptor to my life. I don't recognise how much she anchors me to these principles, to these things.
She homeschools our kids. She's very passionate about learning and teaching, so she's really good at that, and she has stuck with me even when I've had things wrong, when I've been in the wrong pursuit of things. She's a great woman.
Nick Jonsson: And how did you come together again after you said you were a bit in the wrong?
Marty Hofmann: What happened, specifically, is that I had been travelling. A side business I've done for years is that I shear alpacas. It's kind of like shearing sheep, but way more niche and way more money. I was away for about six weeks, and it was kind of same old, same old for me. I would call home every night, but not really have a good conversation. I wasn't pursuing her relationally, and she just disconnected from me emotionally.
When I came home, she said, "Let's go for a walk," and she told me how she was feeling, everything we've been talking about. It hit me so hard, Nick, because I realised I was potentially going to lose my wife over something I thought was okay. So we sat down together and made a plan of what we were going to do and how we were going to make it better, and we started that dating pursuit again.
I will say this: a date night doesn't have to be the most romantic place in town. It can be sitting at a picnic table feeding some ducks. It's just a matter of spending time together. It doesn't have to be expensive. It's time together, and investing in and prioritising that. So that's what we did. We just did the things we should have been doing.
Nick Jonsson: And did it come at any expense? Did you have to slow down your travel, or work less?
Marty Hofmann: Oh yeah. I gave up that shearing run where I was travelling up north, and I said I'm only going to be 300 miles from home at all times. It was a sacrifice, but at the end of the day, when I wrote my obituary, did I want it to say "Marty Hofmann, the alpaca shearer," or "Marty Hofmann, married for 50-plus years to Ginger Hofmann"?
Nick Jonsson: And what made it difficult for you to slow down at that time? What I'm hearing today is someone quite disciplined and structured, with a strong work ethic, and successful. Was that a tough decision?
Marty Hofmann: It's hard, because I'd make $120,000 in three months, so the money was good, and your first thought is, well, how am I going to keep up the finances? But at that point I was dabbling in real estate, not in it hard, so I just leaned into real estate and took that concern away, if you will. For me, Nick, it really wasn't a big question. It was more that if I can't travel and stay connected with my wife, then I just don't want to do it. I know my priorities.
Nick Jonsson: So that disconnection, through your travel and your focus on your working career, almost cost you your relationship, but you came home, reconnected, and owned up to it. If there's anyone listening today who finds themselves on the road working, what would you say to them?
Marty Hofmann: Connect with your spouse. We live in this age of FaceTime. Have that conversation once, twice, three times a day, and go deeper. My big mistake, Nick, was that I wasn't sharing my day and my life with her, and I wasn't listening to her. So I think you can probably do it. But when you come home, be all there. Leave the phone in the drawer, and be all there for your spouse, because they don't get you as much as the other people do.
Nick Jonsson: Is there anything else you want to share in this regard? It's been great to have you on the show, Marty. You're talking from so much experience. I have only one son, and I cannot imagine being committed to six children, so I'm really inspired by everything. Is there anything I forgot to ask you before we let you go today?
Marty Hofmann: I don't think so, but I do want to encourage your listeners. They have the potential in them, if they will show up consistently. You don't run an Ironman without reverse engineering that plan and then showing up consistently and doing the training. Maybe there are days, Nick, where you do less of a workout, but we don't look at it day to day. A lot of the time we look at it week to week.
So that's what I would tell your listeners: they have the potential to go out there and be who they want to be. We have technology, we have resources. We have the potential to do it, so it's just a matter of showing up every day, consistently, and putting the work in.
Nick Jonsson: Thank you so much for that. Marty, I have one last question for you. Looking into the future, what does a limitless life look like for you?
Marty Hofmann: It looks like more walks with my family, my wife. One of my big, audacious goals used to be to write a $100,000 cheque. But my next big goal is to write a million-dollar cheque someday, and have it not hurt, and give it away. I have to continue to build the business and the portfolio to do that, but that's a number I have in mind for giving, and for pushing myself to build businesses and do great things.
Nick Jonsson: Truly inspiring. Thank you so much, Marty, for coming on the Limitless Show today, and thanks to all the listeners as well.
Marty Hofmann: Thank you.